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Flood Waters Effects On Wildlife

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Flood Waters Effects On Wildlife

Postby FireCloud » Thu May 05, 2011 8:31 pm

The MS Outdoors radio show this evening had an interesting Q & A session about the effects anticipated on the wildlife population from the oncoming flooding. Since this flood is predicted to be several feet higher than the previous record floods that occured in 1927 and 1937, basically none of the wildlife people can say with absolute certainty what the effects will be. All they really can do is offer an "educated guess."

The general statements by the MDWFP is that the animals will handle the situation pretty well by simply moving to higher ground and should have plenty to eat because it is spring and food is in abundance, etc. I hope they are right but as with many things put out by the MDWFP, there is reason to question much of their "theories." The fact remains that we do not have a lot of experience with MASSIVE flooding on the scale of this upcoming flood in our state in recent times

Basically few or none of the current wildlife experts today were on the job back in 1927 when we had a similar flood. So the first hand knowledge is simply not there to know what will happen when flooding is so extensive and severe. Since many conditions are different today, such as a VASTLY larger population of deer, turkeys, and other wildlife, the effects cannot be the same.

According to the best estimates, there were only about 3,000 deer living in the entire state back when those floods arrived. Today we may have close to 2 million deer. So if 1,000 deer were displaced by the flooding along the Mississippi River in those decades, it may well have been possible for them to readily find food in the higher ground areas and survive easily. There was simply a lot of land and not very many deer. However, that is not necessarily the case in some areas which may flood this time.

If 100,000 deer are displaced today by an even greater level of flooding, it is not so clear that there will automatically be enough food to support large herds of deer (and all other forms of wildlife that also must find food to eat) when they are all bunched together on small plots of higher ground that might be above the flood waters. Push 100 deer onto a 100 acre woodlot that is above the flood waters and leave them there for a few week, along with hogs and any other animals needing food, and see what is left to eat at the end of that time. Remember this is also the time when fawning will begin, creating much heavier nutrition needs for does. Likewise, this is the time when bucks are rapdily growing antlers, creating bigger nutrition needs for them too. Studies show that when the nutrition is not available when it is needed, racks simply do not form as well and fawn survival suffers.

There are various unknowns too, such as the extent of flooding. We have levees and other systems in place in areas that did not have levees in those floods 75 to 80 years ago. But as Katrina and the 1937 flood have taught us, no one can say that the levees will hold and not be breached by the flooding. If the levees or other flood protection systems fail, then flooding may occur in places where it is not anticipated. The flooding could easily cover vast amounts of land to depths that make it impossible for certain species of wildlife to remain in their natural territories.

Animals that flee the flood to higher ground may then become "trapped" by surrounding flood waters and exhaust the available food supply within the higher ground area. Animals do not have a "built in" map of the areas that will be "safe with abundant food available" but merely go instinctively to any available higher ground. They have no way of knowing whether in doing so they will then become surrounded by flood waters and therefore trapped.

Because the areas of higher ground will concentrate the animals into much smaller spaces, they will also be subject to more disease transmission and greater deaths from predators. The predators will have to eat too and they will have a much easier time killing their prey when the animals are bunched together and cannot readily escape. One of the "theories" that seems to be indicated by the science is that CWD disease is more readily transmitted when deer are more closely bunched and essentially using the same "pasture" for their food. The prions appear to be dropped from any infected deer via their waste droppings and get into the soil, where other deer grazing the same areas ingest the prions. While there is not any concrete proof that we have CWD in Mississippi deer herds today, largely because native deer are free ranging and not forced to eat in the same areas with large numbers of other deer, it is very possible that the flooding may sufficiently concentrate some deer together into small areas which could result in a favorable environment for the transmission of CWD. We won't know for a couple of years after the flood however whether that happened. But it would pay to do intensive CWD sampling one to two years down the road in the Mississippi Delta flooded lands with large deer herd populations.

No one knows the duration of the flooding either, since more storms could dump even more water on the area before the flooding receeds, thereby prolonging the time the ground is under water. Flooding destroys ground nesting areas and diminishes the number of successful births of a number of species. Any very young wildlife species born before the flood hits may also not survive. MDWFP admitted the turkey poults in the areas of flooding will be heavily damaged by the flood, thereby reducing the number of jakes and affecting turkey hunting two years down the road. Depending on how long the dirt remains covered, the force of the flood waters, etc. vegetation can also be destroyed, removing food sources within the area which will require time to recover.

Based on a study of collared deer by MSU on Davis Island, the research indicates that bucks tend to leave flood prone areas as soon as any areas begin to get wet. They move to higher ground early and stay there until the flooding recedes but are the first to return to their former territories. Does, however, stay in the flood prone areas "until their feet get wet" and reluctantly leave well after the bucks are gone. They also are the last to return to their traditional areas. The Davis Island research showed that ALL the deer, both bucks and does, eventually returned to their former habitat (except one buck that got run over while trying to return!) Thus, the long term implication is that eventually any deer that left an area to escape flooding will be back in their home territories.

However, if the original territory that flooded is under water for a long enough time that most of the vegetation is killed and agricultural areas also are not planted with crops because of the flooding, then it stands to reason large numbers of deer are not going to move back into a "wasteland" habitat with nothing in it to eat until something grows there again. I saw that first hand this past summer when the drought killed so much of the vegatation and deer simply did not quickly return to the parched, barren lands they once roamed daily.

I am not sure what the flooding will do in regard to increasing poaching but I have an idea that poaching will rise greatly. Simply being able to see a lot of deer in a small area will be too much temptation for those who like to poach deer. I can see a lot of night hunters riding along a levee spotlighting for deer since that may be the only high ground in the area where deer can find food.

Depending on how extensive, long, and severe the flooding becomes, we could see a noticeable reduction in the turkey, rabbit, and deer herds over the next couple of years in the affected areas. Given the numbers of animals we now have, the good news, if there is anything about the flood that can be considered as good news, is that the wildlife population is large enough to bounce back fairly quickly, assuming no other climatic or other changes follow the flood, such as drought, etc. Squirrels and other wildlife that can remain in the trees easily enough and still eat should be ok.

Flooding will have seriously detremental affects on the fish populations in private ponds if they are submerged by the floods. Lots of "trash fish" may be introduced into the ponds and some of the quality fish will be lost. I can see many pond owners having to complete start over after draining the ponds.

All in all, the flooding is not going to help our wildlife population (or anything else that I can see). I just hope it does not harm it too much, but I am not convinced that everything will simply "be ok" as the MDWFP wants us to believe.
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Re: Flood Waters Effects On Wildlife

Postby huntall » Fri May 06, 2011 6:05 pm

Im with you Firecloud, I think it will have to hurt in some kind of way the wildlife in the
areas. It may be drowning, traped with little to eat, hurt, or just stress of many wildlife.
It may be the young or weak that gets hit the worse. I can see wildlife going to
high ground not knowing that water is closing on them on all sides. This high ground(island)
may be too far for them to swim when it is time for the wildlife to leave. I have seen
deer swim the pearl river in swift water and they swim really good. Just dont know
if a young or weaker deer would make it if they got caught in a bad spot with rising
water. Im sure it has to be a lot of non game wildlife that has to get hit hard as well. Lets hope for the best!
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Re: Flood Waters Effects On Wildlife

Postby gtk » Fri May 06, 2011 8:14 pm

I think the deer will be fine. The turkeys on the other hand will be hurt bad. I imagine most all the hens were nesting or just about to nest. This flood will wipe out the entire brood from Memphis south, everywhere inside the levee and other low lying areas.
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Re: Flood Waters Effects On Wildlife

Postby FireCloud » Fri May 06, 2011 11:58 pm

huntall wrote:Im with you Firecloud, I think it will have to hurt in some kind of way the wildlife in the
areas. It may be drowning, traped with little to eat, hurt, or just stress of many wildlife.
It may be the young or weak that gets hit the worse. I can see wildlife going to
high ground not knowing that water is closing on them on all sides. This high ground(island)
may be too far for them to swim when it is time for the wildlife to leave. I have seen
deer swim the pearl river in swift water and they swim really good. Just dont know
if a young or weaker deer would make it if they got caught in a bad spot with rising
water. Im sure it has to be a lot of non game wildlife that has to get hit hard as well. Lets hope for the best!


There is no doubt that adult deer are great swimmers. Deer can and do swim across the Mississippi River, although I doubt they do as well when the water is rushing along at flood stage. But adult deer can easily swim a mile or more even in cold water or swift moving water. So I am confident the adult deer will be able to "make a run for it" and get to higher ground.

The flooding is going to crest, assuming no more major rainfall occurs, in a couple more weeks, around the 20th of the month. And given the size of this flood, it will take quite a while for the water to receded. Fawning will definitely be occuring in some locations while the flood waters are high. Fawns will be very stressed by the flood, having never experienced anything of that nature before and not even being acquainted with swimming in water. I feel the fawns will suffer some predation, drownings, disorientation, and overall stress as a result of the flood, not to mention having a harder time getting the nutrition they need. It's going to be hard on the fawn crop I think.

The adult deer probably will make it through with much less damage, although it will stress them too. When deer are forced to move in a herd pattern, a percentage of them will dart across roads, get hit, and be injured or killed. This is the time of year when bucks normally lie around getting fat with not much movement, allowing their energy to go toward antler growth. When they are having to swim, run, and be on the move much more to find food or travel to a new territory all that energy is being burned off via the exercise instead of going to develop antlers. Not to mention that antlers in velvet are more readily broken off. A buck running or swimming, etc. is more inclined to damage antlers in velvet than if he is staying in his home territory just laying around in a thicket all day. Some good rack bucks will probably have broken tines as a result of the flood that they otherwise would not have.

Deer may also be forced as a result of the flood to have to stay on high ground that may not have much cover for them. They may thus be far more exposed and visible than when they are bedded down in their best hiding places. Deer without cover feel very nervous and stressed. And they are more visible to predators. In the delta area, the black bears living along the river will be having to move to high ground too and they will lose a lot of their normal food sources. I can see some of the bears deciding to lunch on venison if that is what is available. So will the coyotes who will also have to bunch up on the higher ground with the deer. Nothing about this scenario improves the outcome for the deer. Everything about it creates trouble for deer.

The small game, like rabbits are in for a very bad time. Avoiding flooding and finding plenty to eat is not easy for a rabbit. If they do make it to high ground and there is not suitable cover where they go, then they simply become lunch for the predators who can find them easier.

Squirrels will not have much problem as they can travel long distances through the trees without having to go to the ground and can find enough food in the trees to survive.

Adult turkeys are also going to be ok. They can perch in trees and fly so they will not be hemmed in. The young turkey poults or unhatched eggs in the nest will be decimated by the flood. The flood will severely set back this year's turkey hatch and make it bad hunting a couple years down the road when we will be wondering where all the turkeys went.

Raccoons, possums, and similar tree climbers will also survive pretty well. Frankly, if we lost some of them, I don't think there would be a big outcry.

Hogs are going to have to hoof it to higher ground in order to make it. This might be the best chance we will have to do some serious damage to the wild hog population. I think every hunter and even the game wardens should do their very best to wipe out every wild hog they can possibly kill while they are bunched up on higher ground.

I do hope the flood kills a lot of the skunks, armadillos, and other pest animals that are in the area, although the dang armadillos won't likely even care about the flood because they can stay underwater for so long before even needing a breath of air.

It's going to be very interesting to see how all this shakes out!
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Re: Flood Waters Effects On Wildlife

Postby BigRic » Sat May 07, 2011 8:30 pm

25,000 acres under water so it will push a lot of critter up my way.. sure don't need the hog's though.
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Re: Flood Waters Effects On Wildlife

Postby FireCloud » Sat May 07, 2011 9:02 pm

BigRic wrote:25,000 acres under water so it will push a lot of critter up my way.. sure don't need the hog's though.


Well, if you need a hand killing hogs, just let me know. I would love to pop some of them!
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Re: Flood Waters Effects On Wildlife

Postby BigRic » Sun May 08, 2011 7:01 am

FireCloud wrote:
BigRic wrote:25,000 acres under water so it will push a lot of critter up my way.. sure don't need the hog's though.


Well, if you need a hand killing hogs, just let me know. I would love to pop some of them!


well Hope you better hitting a hog than hitting a squirell...lol :W: :stir: :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol:
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Re: Flood Waters Effects On Wildlife

Postby FireCloud » Sun May 08, 2011 9:24 pm

Yeah, yeah...I hear ya! But the only squirrel I saw that day was one that ran across the ground at high speed and over a ridge in about two seconds flat. I don't even bother to try shooting my .22 at a running squirrel. Just wastes ammo. In fact, I never shoot at a squirrel when it is moving. I simply wait until it stops and then drop the hammer on him. I rarely miss. But I give you credit for being the "pro" squirrel hunter of the day. You bagged the most squirrels (2) of anyone.

Hogs would be a piece of cake after shooting squirrels in the head all the time. Let me know when you want to create a pile of dead hogs!
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Re: Flood Waters Effects On Wildlife

Postby gtk » Mon May 09, 2011 12:40 pm

I wonder about the bears... Its sure got to push them out too..
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Re: Flood Waters Effects On Wildlife

Postby BigRic » Mon May 09, 2011 7:57 pm

gtk wrote:I wonder about the bears... Its sure got to push them out too..


yeah them too!
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Re: Flood Waters Effects On Wildlife

Postby FireCloud » Mon May 09, 2011 8:06 pm

Heard a live report this afternoon on the radio from a person observing the levees who said he was seeing several alligators lying on the levee waiting for the chance for a nice meal to arrive. I am pretty sure all the predators...bears, included...will be doing pretty much the same thing.
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Re: Flood Waters Effects On Wildlife

Postby merrillcd_mem » Wed May 11, 2011 7:01 am

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Re: Flood Waters Effects On Wildlife

Postby FireCloud » Wed May 11, 2011 10:41 pm




Thanks very much for sharing the link to the article. EVERYONE needs to read that article!! :ylsuper:

The picture says it all. You can see plainly this buck does not have a clue where "dry land" might be or how to get there. The look of complete misery and confusion on his face is readily apparent. He is exposed in the wide open without any cover, which makes any deer nervous. He has no place to sleep comfortably and remains at risk of yet more water rising up and forcing him off the rooftop. He really does not have decent water to drink; flood water is nasty and may have chemicals or other contamination in it. That buck needs about 8 pounds of food per day and he isn't going to get it on that rooftop. In this heat, on an asphalt shingle roof, he is going to also be suffering from the temperature, leading to dehydration which may force him to drink bad water. What are his odds of survival? Not good.

But wait....in my first post above, I listened last Thursday evening to Chad Dacus and Larry Castle of the MDWFP tell all the sportsmen on statewide radio that "the deer should be ok." Yeah, right. I did not believe that bull then and I still don't. It's the same crap the crew at the MDWFP are famous for....saying what they want you to believe rather than the truth.

And what is the truth, you ask? Read the article in the link and it will tell you what the truth is about Memphis, Tennessee's flood. Notice that Andy Tweet, the Tennessee Wildlife officer quoted in the article, states:

A) He expects 60% of the deer will NOT make it.

B) He has already had to personally shoot at least a dozen deer who survival was compromised by the flood.

C) He claims many deer are being instantly "splattered" as they run across busy highways.

That, fellow forum readers, is what is actually happening to the deer herds that are affected by flooding, not the "everything's going to be ok" scenario put out by our MDWFP.

I have no doubt deer are having to be killed by Mississippi law officers as they get entangled in tree tops, fencing, or whatever else they encouter trying to swim, wade, or run through flood waters. I also have no doubt our deer are being hit by vehicles as they flee across our highways. As to what percentage "makes it" of the deer previously living in areas that become flooded, time will tell. But it would not surprise me if a high percentage of the deer die from one cause or the other.

No, I do NOT blame the MDWFP for the flooding nor for the conditions the deer will encounter as a result. But disseminating "misinformation" to the public IN NO WAY helps reduce the effects on wildlife. And urging the public not to put out food for deer that may NEED but not be able to find food, is simply bizzare. The MDWFP is so "gung ho" against the public feeding any deer...any time...that I am convinced they would frown if the cameraman who shot the picture were to toss a bag of corn onto that rooftop, even if there were 10 starving deer trapped on it! If they spotted this buck, I think the MDWFP would believe this poor buck will "be ok" and that, if left alone, he will swim to high ground (like maybe onto a second story balcony perhaps? :rotflol: ) and find some growing plants to browse upon (maybe the tenant's flowers? :rotflol: )

I am not one to criticize without offering solutions. Realizing you cannot stop a flood, nor can you save every critter, I do not have a miracle way to prevent some deer herd loss. No one has a way to do that. But there are some ways to help some deer.

A) Start by informing sportsmen and the public correctly about the impacts the flooding will have on the deer and other wildlife. Acknowledge the impact will be significant.

B) Enlist the aid and assistance of sportsmen groups, deer camp members, etc. all over the state to lend a hand to deal with deer or other wildlife issues where they are found to exist.

C) Organize teams of citizens and wildlife officials to work together to DAILY look for, locate, and indentify deer or other wildlife in dangerous or distressed conditions. There is not enough manpower in the state agency alone to do the task. More people are needed and areas need to be canvassed in a grid search manner. This is a GREAT opportunity for hunters and anti-hunters to work side by side for a change, as the goal of BOTH groups would be to save whatever wildlife can be saved. Talk about a way to bridge some gaps between opposing groups, this situation has that potential. In fact, all the PETA type people should be more than happy to help.

D) When problems are found (deer on a rooftop, too many deer trapped in an area with no food, etc.) do whatever is necessary to remedy the problem. Tranquilize the deer on a rooftop, relocate to a safe area, etc. Deliver food or water to trapped animals if needed. This is simply an animal rescue operation which people volunteer to do all the time. This will require money, time, manpower, and resources but the important thing is IT CAN BE DONE! If these were horses, you can bet there would be ample volunteers to save them.

E) As the flood recedes, actions will be needed to restore wildlife habitat in some cases and to either relocate animals back into their original habitat or restock the areas with new breed stock. This will also require considerable dollars, resources, and manpower.

This sort of crisis for our wildlife is one they cannot solve on their own. Human intervention will be necessary in many cases if the level of wildlife deaths is to be kept low and the wildlife population in flood affected areas is to quickly return to its normal level. It is not a project we can or should expect any wildlife agency to do by itself. However, the wildlife agency should be taking the lead in asking for money from the state's emergency funds or seeking grants or other Federal funds for wildlife rescue and flood habitat damage mitigation, animal restocking, or other restoration efforts.

We all need to face the truth about the impact of the flooding on our wildlife is going to be signficiant and that considerable efforts are needed to alleviate as much of the impact as possible.
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Re: Flood Waters Effects On Wildlife

Postby FireCloud » Wed May 11, 2011 11:20 pm

There are a couple other aspects of the flooding problem which are very troubling. Here is one important question to ponder. What happened to all the "penned deer" in any pens affected by flooding? The safety and health of deer inside a high fenced area clearly becomes the primary responsibilty of the land owner. To keep from "mixing" non-native deer with the native herd, ideally, all the deer inside a penned area which are non-native deer (exotics, imported deer, etc.) should be caught and relocated at the owner's expense so that flooding will not create a way for those deer to escape into the wild. And it is the job of the MDWFP to see that our native herd remains is it is now.

Anybody want to bet we will NEVER hear a report from the MDWFP that they oversaw the capture and safe relocation of all penned deer in the areas where flooding might occur BEFORE the flood arrived? Remember, floods are not "instant disasters" and there is ample time to deal with penned deer. After all the opposition by the MDWFP to the proposed law authorizing "game farms" this past legislative session which was based on the belief mixing non-native deer with our native deer would be bad, and might facilitate CWD entering our native herd, don't they owe us the protection from that risk happening now by insuring all penned deer in the path of a flood are relocated? At the least, the public is owed an asurance by the MDWFP that any and all penned deer operations in the path of the flood have responsibly relocated or otherwise handled the deer inside their fences.

Here is one more "good question" just for good measure! Dr. Sam Polles was quoted in a published news story as saying there were about 120 permitted high fenced deer pens in the state. The Chairman of a Legislative Wildlife Committee was quoted as saying there might be as many as 200 high fenced pens, thus indicating there could be 80 or so "illegal" high fenced pens keeping NATIVE deer inside the fence that were not permitted. What that says, in a nutshell, is state officials know there are illegal high fenced pens out there and they even have a reasonable estimate of how many there are.

In light of the fact it is the duty of the MDWFP wildlife conservation officers to patrol their assigned areas so as to be familar with what is going on within their territory, I personally don't see any reason these high fenced areas could not be readily identified by the MWDFP. (Ride the roads, scout down the trails on an ATV, or just ask local hunters....finding the high fenced areas is NOT that hard to do!) The illegal high fenced pens are where the real problem is. These are like "moonshiners" in that nothing they are doing is being done legally. So if the MDWFP has not already identified the owners of and located each and every one of the illegal high fenced pens in the state, WHY HAVEN"T THEY? (Stay with me here, this IS related to flooding...we will be to that point in a few more sentences.)

MDWFP was quoted in the news article as saying they had reason to believe some high fenced enclosures were being used as "shooting preserves" where money was being charged for hunts. If they have cause to believe this is true, they also have a duty to put an end to it; the best way being to obtain a court order requiring "cease and desist" of any illegal, unpermitted high fenced enclosures as they are located. The MDWFP should have already been "busting" those illegal operations well before the flooding arrived.

But since the MDWFP apparently has failed in its duty to identify and remove any and all unpermitted high fenced deer pens, now were are faced with a new problem as a result of the flood. If any of these illegal high fenced pens are located in areas that will be flooded, those pens could become "death traps" as the deer inside might not be able to escape. And since the MDWFP "supposedly" does not know where any of these 80 or so illegal pens the legislative committee chairman believes exist (and yes, they do exist...in fact, I rode by one myself down in the Natchez area not long ago), the MDWFP is not going to be able to protect those deer within the death trap by seeing that the landowner releases the deer. After all, the MDWFP cannot ride up to the landower with an illegal high fence and say:

"Hey, YOU!... Yeah, you...the guy with the unpermitted high fence that we "don't know about! Since we "dont know" about your high fence, we have allowed you to keep this fence up and keep the native deer penned inside all this time. But now, because it is in the path of the flood and the deer inside might become trapped in a death trap, and by law our job is to protect the wildlife, we are going to force you to knock down the fence we "don't know about" and let out all the deer we have previoulsy been letting you keep behind the fence."

Or do they just turn a blind eye to the illegal operation they "don't know about" one more time and let any deer in the death trap die? It's a very good question isn't it? The public as well as sportsmen in Mississippi should be demanding an answer as to what, if anything, the MDWFP has done to protect the deer in death trap "illegal" high fenced pens which they assumingly have never been able to find. We have to "assume" they simply were not compentent enough to find these pens, BTW, because if they were able to find them, then they would have already cited them them for illegally operating without a permit and following state regulations. Unless of course, as "sometimes" happens in law enforcement, a little "protection money" has been paid to look the other way by the owners of these high fences who want to sell hunts on them. But that is another story for another day's post.

All I will say at this point in time is that Mississippi has a LONG history of corruption among it's government officials. A couple decades ago, the FBI did an undercover sting of Mississippi Supervisors by setting up a bogus culvert sales business and offering cash bribes to as many supervisors as they could find to take the money. They found quite a few supervisors who would willingly took the bribes in return for the promise to buy some culverts. In the county where I lived, four of the five supervisors took the money. But one didn't. The FBI put the marked money in an envelop and left it in the glove box of his truck but told him were it was. He told the "culvert salesman" to get the money out of his truck and he would never be doing business with that company. The FBI remarked it was one of the very few supervisors statewide who simply did the job he was hired by the people to do in an honest fashion.

The point here is that people who have a duty to know where unpermitted fences are located that are trapping native deer and other wildlife inside apparently "don't know anything about it." Or if they do know, they are "looking the other way" instead of vigorously asking for court orders to remove the fencing and shut down "paid game hunting" inside high fenced deer enclosures. Sounds like the time might be right for another FBI corruption sting to target people who might be selling paid hunts illegally in our state and any law enforcement or state agency staff who might be "protecting" those operations by looking the other way. But as I say, that is a post for another day.

Wrapping this post up, don't think for a minute that the landowners who have erected high fences without getting any permit or following any state laws so as to trap native deer inside, either to hunt themselves or to illegally "sell" paid hunts to other people, are going to voluntarily knock down their high fences and shoo the native deer off their lands onto high ground just so the deer they have fed all that expensive corn and protein feed to can survive. Nope, they are going to hope their fences remain intact and that all the deer inside their fences tread water untll the flood recedes. If some don't make it, they will quitely push the carcasses into a ravine somewhere and keep on doing their dirty deeds. Those sorts of people just don't "let the deer go" that they spend huge sums of money to fence in and keep for their own use. It is not their mentality to do so.

My guess is many deer in these illegal high fenced pens will be trapped and die but we may never know about it, as the landowner is not going to annouce that to the public. For those who favor stiffer animal cruelty laws, it should be a "top of the list" crime to pen any animal inside anything where it cannot escape drowning. I could even vote for that to be a felony first offence crime!
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Re: Flood Waters Effects On Wildlife

Postby saddaddykiller » Wed May 11, 2011 11:32 pm

suppodely ther is some game wardens that hutn some land over here in louisiana that are gonna dart the big bucks, put them in a pen, and put them back on there property after the water goes down......i do not know if that is even legal...............
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Re: Flood Waters Effects On Wildlife

Postby gtk » Thu May 12, 2011 2:38 pm

maybe they meant the deer will be "ok" ... meaning they will repopulate in 5 to 10 years :stir:

looking that the 1/2 full side... if the population is drastically cut inside the levee, the carrying capacity should be more than met.. those few bucks that make it should have ample opportunity to grow huge !
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Re: Flood Waters Effects On Wildlife

Postby FireCloud » Thu May 12, 2011 11:37 pm

gtk wrote:maybe they meant the deer will be "ok" ... meaning they will repopulate in 5 to 10 years :stir:

looking that the 1/2 full side... if the population is drastically cut inside the levee, the carrying capacity should be more than met.. those few bucks that make it should have ample opportunity to grow huge !


Yes, GTK, a part of what they were saying is the population will not be reduced to the point of extinction. I have to agree with them about that. Deer reproduce rapidly enough that in two different studies it has been shown starting with only 10 deer, you can get a herd of as many as 2,700 deer within 10 years. So, I certainly know the deer population will not vanish in the flooded areas over the long term.

And I agree with you that if the deer population is so "overpopulated" as they keep saying it is, the benefits for hunters could actually be good rather quickly within the next couple of years from herd reduction as the surviving bucks would have ample nutrition, less competition, etc. Since the bucks are likely stronger, I am betting a few more of them survive than the does. That might help balance the buck-doe ratio too, thereby improving things all around.

Of course if we applied that logic, and we really wanted to "balance the herd" or eliminate the overpopulation problem we keep hearing about, the ideal thing to do would be hold a special draw permit hunt right now while the deer are trapped and simply kill off the ones needed to bring things back into balance.

Everyone wins if we did that! Hunters get an easy, bonus spring deer hunt where they can shoot fish (deer) in a barrel, the meat can be donated to help feed the displaced people living in shelters or people who lost their freezers full of meat to the flood, and the deer left alive would benefit from a more balanced deer herd and less competition for food. Hunters in the fall would not be complaining of "too many does" either. Maybe we should get busy and start shooting these trapped deer? What do you think? :stir:
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Re: Flood Waters Effects On Wildlife

Postby merrillcd_mem » Fri May 13, 2011 5:45 am

gtk wrote:maybe they meant the deer will be "ok" ... meaning they will repopulate in 5 to 10 years :stir:

looking that the 1/2 full side... if the population is drastically cut inside the levee, the carrying capacity should be more than met.. those few bucks that make it should have ample opportunity to grow huge !



I know that some of those deer on Presidents Island were HUGE.. have you seen pics of some of those? I think they had a 9-point rule and it was Bow only as well.. I think anyway.
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