Stray Dog

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Stray Dog

Postby TiteGrpR » Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:32 pm

Ok, what is the thing to do if you find a mangy, possibly diseased mut on your hunting property? I coudnt scare the thing off no matter what I did and It wanted to follow me everywhere I went. Wouldnt have been such a big deal except the fact it was too close to one of my stands. I'm not gonna say what I did to get rid of it...what would you guys have done?
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Re: Stray Dog

Postby gtk » Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:05 pm

Being it was friendly and following me around.. .I probably would have loaded it up and dumped it at bwm's house :P

Each situation is different.
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Re: Stray Dog

Postby Smacko » Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:52 pm

Terry loves dogs...should have called him...

By the way ALL MEMBERS take notice:

Any discussion of illegal actions may cause ban or put in time out..

Best thing is to take to a vet and let them do what they need to do...
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Re: Stray Dog

Postby TiteGrpR » Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:03 pm

Since Im sure everyone assumes I killed the dog I must make it clear that I did not. On my way out I drove slow enough so it could follow me back to the main road. At that point I sped off. Trust me, this is not a dog you want to just grab up and take home with you. It had disease oozing from every orifice. Sad sight to say the least...what if it had not followed me?
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Re: Stray Dog

Postby FireCloud » Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:52 pm

[quote="Smacko"]
By the way ALL MEMBERS take notice:

Any discussion of illegal actions may cause ban or put in time out..quote]


I fully understand this is a private website where membership is a priviledge. But as moderators you should understand that most of us are here because this site lacks the heavy handed censorship that was practiced on MDWFP's website when all sorts of topics were "moderated" by locking the topic, removing the posts, or suspending the membership of the person who discussed the topic. That sort of heavy handed, arbitrary moderating is why I left MDWFP and if it happens here, I will leave this forum too. America is a country where many men have died supporting our rights as citizens to have free speech (First Amendment.) I for one will give up that right just like when I will give up my gun ownership right (Second Amendment)...when you pry it out of my cold, dead hand!

For the record, this forum is filled with many discussion and occasionally advocating of practices that are never legal under various state laws. There is an abundance of discussion along with photos at times of illegal deer feeders and illegal deer feeding. No moderator ever threatens to ban or take action over those forms of illegal activities being discussed and openly practiced. Why not? Do you just react to only topics that, as moderators, you personally don't like people to discuss, such as the laws regarding shooting of dogs? If that is what you do, then you are practicing a form of completely arbitrary censorship that is directed only against things you personally dislike. There is no fairness nor justice in actions applied discriminatorily.

For your general info, shooting a dog is not always illegal. There are circumstances when shooting a possibly rabid animal or a vicious, out of control animal is justified. Thus it is absolutely ludicrous to threaten to ban discussion of a topic that may, in some cases, not even be illegal. Each case is dependant on the state of being the dog is observed to be in at the time, such as being rabid, and its viciousness and aggression toward other humans or animals. Last year, where I live a pit bull killed an infant. The father of the infant shot the dog. Was he justified in doing so? Would you have shot a dog that just killed your little girl? He was not arrested for any dog law violations but the owner of the pit bull was.

Finally, the gentleman asked in his post what should have been done. If the dog was not observed to be threatening and appeared friendly, it should have been reported to the local sheriff's office along with a request to remove the dog from the property. State law empowers the sheriff's office to dispatch any loose dogs which are a nuisance or otherwise creating issues or which do not have a current rabies tag visible. As an alternative, the sheriff can hold the dog and attempt to locate the owner...it's the sheriff's decision as to what to do under state law. It is quite possible a sheriff might authorize the dispatch of the dog meeting those criteria by someone other than his own deputies which is within his authority to do. But if the sheriff is not notified and someone simply shoots a dog willfully and the shooter is convicted of an offense under the law, it is merely a simple misdemeanor. Most all of us commit misdemeanors like traffic offenses, shooting over the limit on game, or other actions from time to time and I don't see anyone on this forum getting their panties in a wad over it.

Many years before the current state law on shooting dogs was enacted, I lived in a city with a dog ordinance. Various neighbors however habitually disregarded the laws and allowed dogs to roam loose, especially at night. A pack of several large mastiff dogs attacked my wife's cat and her kittens, killing one of the baby kittens. I contacted the City Prosecutor and asked what the penalty was for shooting a stray dog. At that time, the fine was $150 for that sort of misdemeanor.

The following morning, my wife spotted one of the dogs in the pack again in my yard with one of the baby kittens cornered. When she screamed, I picked up my bow, opened the back door, and put a broadhead through his skull at about 5 yards. This was during the time when poision pods were legal for shooting deer and my arrow had an empty pod on it. The dog ran off with the arrow protruding through both sides of his skull and made it a couple blocks back to his own home before he died. When the news of this dog being summarily shot through the skull with a "poisoned arrow" made the local gossip channels, a huge reduction of loose dogs occurred thereafter. I never saw the pack of dogs in my yard again. The police, of course, explained to the dog owner his duty was to keep his dog confined to his own property and not allow him to roam free. Had the dog law been observed to start with, my wife's kitten would not have been killed and the dog would still be alive.

Would I shoot a loose, stray dog that was about to kill a family pet? Would I shoot a pit bull that is attacking an infant? Would I shoot a rabid dog attacking me or any other person? Yep, I would shoot to kill the dog in each of those sitations without hesitation. Animals are not sacred. Man was given dominion over the animals and I, for one, disagree entirely with the animal rights groups who would make shooting dogs or any other animals a felony. Laws can be made that will make citizens into criminals, such as making killing of an animal a felony, but the mere existance of a law does NOT make that action right. Witness the constant efforts of some to make merely possessing a handgun a felony crime. How many of the readers on this forum think making handgun possession a felony is the right thing to do? No? That is my point. A law can be wrong. We have a long history in the USA of making laws that were both morally wrong and legally wrong. So don't give me the "it's illegal, so we should not talk about it" arguement. I just don't buy that! By that logic, no laws would ever get repealed because no one would ever be allowed to talk about them being wrong!! The mark of a truly free society is the right to free speech and that should never be abridged anywhere at any time by anyone.

I do not advocate wanton killing of animals. Those who read my writings know I take more pictures of animals than I ever kill, even when the opportunity presents itself. But if, in the judgement of a sensible human, the proper and best answer to a situation is to shoot a dog (or any other animal) then my opinion is a much higher authority gave man that priviledge way back in Genesis.

In life, many moral dilemas are presented where the greater good of preventing the injury or death of innocent victims means the perpertrator has to die. That is precisely, by the way, why we have capital punishment. It removes violent people from society that are deemed a threat to others, deters future criminal acts, and makes society safer for everyone else.

Killing a diseased animal is a similar moral dilema. Spreading of diseases, like rabies, is not in the public interest so letting a dog or other animal that may have that disease live is not a wise decision. And the solution of taking it to the vet to be killed is rather disingenuous as the dog winds up just as dead in the end as if it had been shot in the woods. "Sanitized" death is still death.

I'm just exercising my right of free speech, but if this post gets me banned from this site, so be it!
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Re: Stray Dog

Postby Smacko » Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:57 am

Firecloud

1-- I am not a moderator-- :W:

2--I NEVER said that he shot the dog nor implied it

3-- I don't wear panties :lol:

4-- I have dispatched dogs as well depending on situation

5--Your post are still long :bash:
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Re: Stray Dog

Postby TiteGrpR » Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:47 pm

Thank you FireCloud. :smash:
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Re: Stray Dog

Postby gtk » Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:40 pm

FireCloud wrote:I'm just exercising my right of free speech, but if this post gets me banned from this site, so be it!

i thought i had banned you months ago, but the dang banner thingy don't work right.. :thumbsup:
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Re: Stray Dog

Postby quigleysharps4570 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:46 pm

TiteGrpR wrote:Ok, what is the thing to do if you find a mangy, possibly diseased mut on your hunting property?


Knew an old man that took one in once that was in that kind of shape. Pitiful looking thing it was...mangy, starving and stunk. He named him "Stinky". Anyway...he kept him rubbed down with used motor oil...turned out to be one of the best looking blue heelers I've seen. That dog really to a liking to the old man. Guess that was one of those deals where you can't judge a book by it's cover. ;)
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Re: Stray Dog

Postby saddaddykiller » Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:41 pm

my grandpa always says....you see a dog on my property, shoot em......we all work too dadgum hard to prepare for deer season to have mutts mess up our hunts.... ill leave it at that before i say summin thats gonna get me in trouble.
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Re: Stray Dog

Postby BIGERN76 » Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:27 pm

FireCloud wrote:State law empowers the sheriff's office to dispatch any loose dogs which are a nuisance or otherwise creating issues or which do not have a current rabies tag visible.

Mr. FireCloud, you are gonna have to direct me to something in writing on this one. You seem like a very intellegent fellow and I have learned some stuff reading some of your posts. But I think this is incorrect. It was only a couple of years ago that a Lowndes Co. Deputy shot a dog on the side of the road that had been hit by a car and he was seriously reprimanded. We have one animal control officer in Lowndes Co. I have talked to him on occasion and he said the only way they can shoot a dog is if it is going to attack someone (and they usually try the dog mace first). As far as a rabies tag, I used to raise a few pups and they are not required to have a rabies tag. It is only recomended and a dog can't be shot just b/c it don't have any tags.
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Re: Stray Dog

Postby ufgators68 » Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:45 am

TiteGrpR wrote:Since Im sure everyone assumes I killed the dog I must make it clear that I did not. On my way out I drove slow enough so it could follow me back to the main road. At that point I sped off. Trust me, this is not a dog you want to just grab up and take home with you. It had disease oozing from every orifice. Sad sight to say the least...what if it had not followed me?


You should have put it out of it's misery. A healthy dog would have gotten a trip home with me until it could get rehomed.
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Re: Stray Dog

Postby FireCloud » Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:57 am

I don't "shoot from the lip" and spout out information claiming it to be "fact" without having done my research first, especially on a post that is public for the entire globe to see via the internet. It is fair to challenge my posts in order to learn more about a subject and in that spirit, I am happy to respond to the request for written documentation to back up my claim that the "high sheriff" has the ultimate decision making power in every county over whether or not a dog is to be shot. And that, my friends is a fact that is stated clearly in the state statues. I will quote some of the most applicable parts below. But first here is a link to a web page that covers in full detail the Mississippi statues and regulations regarding the public health question of rabies.

http://www.mbah.state.ms.us/disease_programs/rabies/ms_rabies_laws.htm

Mississippi "dog laws" are fractured and these are NOT the only statues about dogs in the state law. These are, however, the most important ones that govern dispatching dogs (or cats) who do not possess a collar with a current rabies tag. The reason this law exists is that rabies is a serious public health issue and it is necessary to mandate all dogs and cats be vaccinated in order to reduce the risk of rabies.

Statue 41-53-1 requires all dog and cat owners to vaccinate their animals by the time they reach 3 months old and to affix the supplied vaccination tag permanently to a collar which must be worn by the animal at all times. Failure to comply with any of these requirements beaks that law and the owner can be charged with a misdemeanor and fined. Thus, if everyone complied, there would not be any dogs or cats "running at large" that did not have current rabies vaccination proof readily visible.

But since there are animals running at large that do not have proof of vaccination showing, Section 41-53-1, entitled "Dogs Running At Large" states in Part 1:

"it shall be their duty for any sheriff, conservation officer or peace officer of a county or municipality to kill any dog above the age of three (3) months found running at large on whose neck there is no such collar and tag."

Part 2 of that same section also states:

"It shall be the duty of any sheriff, conservation officer or peace officer of a county or municipality to kill or otherwise destroy any and all dogs above the age of three (3) months which are running at large and have not been inoculated (vaccinated) as required in this chapter."


I'd say that is pretty clear language.

I don't want to pick on our law enforcement officers, however, if any law enforcement officer does not perform his or her duty to shoot and kill any such animals they are (A) breaching their sworn duty to the public and (B) endangering public health by allowing an uncontrolled, unvaccinated animal to roam at will. I would suspect some officers probably have not recieved in depth training on the "dog laws" and simply are unaware of this section of the state law. In fairness, I do however know a number of law enforcement officers who regularly look for such animals and willfully dispatch them as the law requires.

I might add that a portion of Part 1 which I have not quoted here states that "officers" (as distinct from the "high sheriff" himself) have a duty to actually apprehend the animal, keep the animal for 5 days, and give a description of the animal to the sheriff. The sheriff then can release the dog or animal to anyone who proves their rightful ownership and pays the grand sum of 50 cents to the Sheriff for his efforts. I would suspect they would also receive a citation for violating the rabies vaccination law and a chance to go to court for that misdemanor or pay a fine.

So, how the legislature intended for this law to work back in the days when keeping an animal for five days and doing all this work could be fairly compensated for just 50 cents is like this. One, if anyone other than a law enforcement officer sees a dog or cat without a collar, and thus no rabies vaccination proof showing, they should contact law enforcement and let them deal with the problem.

Two, law enforcement should investigate the problem and if they can do so, catch the animal running loose without a collar and hold the animal for 5 days while the sheriff tries to locate the owner. And logically, with implanted chips and other methods of animal ID we have now, perhaps the dog's identity can be determined. If so, the vet doing the vaccination for the animal is required to keep permanent records of all vaccinations and should be able to verify whether or not the animal without a collar has been vaccinated.

All of that is how Part 1 of this section should work. But if it can be determined the animal has never been vaccinated or no owner comes forth, the dog or animal MUST be destroyed per Part 2 of this state law. Notice that this law does NOT give the sheriff the right to allow the dog or animal to be "adopted" by someone and vaccinated. The law does not give the sheriff the right to decide who should be the new owner of the dog nor does it allow the sheriff to release the unvaccinated animal. It simply states in Part 2 the sheriff has a duty to kill the animal...period.

Like most things in our rather odd set of state laws, this provision is outdated and sometimes ignored. Mostly that happens because people are "soft hearted" and just don't like the idea of a lawman with a handgun putting a bullet through the skull of a dog as it runs through someone's yard. From a practical standpoint, if you see dogs running at large on your land and correctly report the situation to the sheriff, you "may" get approval from the sheriff to dispatch the animals yourself. Some sheriff's have animal control officers who acquire the animals, usually by shooting them with a tranquilzer dart, and delivering them to an animal shelter for the 5 days. Before animals are released for adoption the shelter enforces the state law about vaccination. While this may be what many consider a "good" outcome, it does not do what the state law says, which is to kill the animal.

Ok, hope that helps clear up this issue. And yeah, this is a long post. There are people who like the information I provide and others who probably don't care to read my posts. If you fall into the latter category, instead of griping about my exercise of free speech, just skip the things I post and read the next one. I cannot help but wonder if those who complain of long posts also stroll down to the front of the church on Sunday morning to let the preacher know they thought his sermon was too long! My advice is if you don't want to hear a long sermon, don't go to church because you are bound to hear one that is longer than you like eventually. This is a forum and topics can get discussed at great length. If you don't want to see that happen, then you probably should watch TV instead of reading forum posts.

Regardless of how many times anyone complains about the length of my posts, I will continue to write or post as I see fit. Some of my posts are very short but some are much longer. It varies. BTW, I have never yet reached the limit set on this website for any of my posts and yes, there is a maximum size limit! So get over it ok, as I a am doing nothing wrong here.
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Re: Stray Dog

Postby racklover » Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:11 am

i cant see attempting to catch and relocate or take a stray to the vet to be put down...i have owned some dogs in my life that i respect much more than many humans... all situations are different but: IMO...stray dog without collar=varmit....really, how different is there between a mangy stray dog and a beautiful healthy coyote...just a thought...............................also common sense plays a part in this as well.
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Re: Stray Dog

Postby BIGERN76 » Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:45 pm

Thanks for the info Firecloud. I stand corrected as does our local L.E.
Now the next time my neighbors dog comes to my yard to poop, I will have it picked up. :D
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Re: Stray Dog

Postby FireCloud » Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:17 pm

BIGERN76 wrote:Thanks for the info Firecloud. I stand corrected as does our local L.E.
Now the next time my neighbors dog comes to my yard to poop, I will have it picked up. :D


Your neighbors dog probably has a collar and rabies tag. :D
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Re: Stray Dog

Postby BIGERN76 » Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:44 am

FireCloud wrote:
BIGERN76 wrote:Thanks for the info Firecloud. I stand corrected as does our local L.E.
Now the next time my neighbors dog comes to my yard to poop, I will have it picked up. :D


Your neighbors dog probably has a collar and rabies tag. :D


No, it don't. That is actually the reason I asked the S.O. about shooting a dog. I work nights and the dog was barking right outside my window most mornings (I actually never complained about all the poo at that time). After talking with my neighbor 4 times with no help, I called the law. I told the deputy I had seen the dog bite 2 kids and snap at others. Anyhow, the dog had no tags at all and was not on a leash (we have leash law) and they wouldn't even pick it up (called 3 times). Now thanks to your post I now know it is the law, they have to pick it up.
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Re: Stray Dog

Postby terry08 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:36 am

This discussion has been going on since 9/21/2010. It is now 9/27/2010, I think I will just lock this discussion and all who try and post on it. :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol:
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Re: Stray Dog

Postby jv » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:44 am

:rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol: Thats what would have happen on the other site :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol:
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