• Advertisement

More questions.....

Food Plot info/questions, Herd Management, QDMA ...

More questions.....

Postby newlandowner » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:36 pm

You all taught me about 10 years' worth of education in a week. I really appreciate it. Now I want to ask a few more questions to pick your brains.

1. I cleared about 2 acres of junk trees, probably 3-4 year old growth. The equipment operators left the debris in a large pile to be burned after it dried out good. They dug me a hole to push the debris in once it is burned down. This pile is probably 500 yards from my food plot. This may be a dumb question but would it be ok to burn now or should I wait until after deer season? I would rather get rid of it but if it will send the deer running then I am happy to wait.

2. I read on this site more than a few comments about "hunting pressure" and that makes sense to me. On the other hand, I don't know how much is too much? Remember my land is about 65 acres within 45 or so wooded, and the remaining pasture for cows. The trail cams are picking up deer (not many horns) but honestly they all look pretty much the same to me so I don't get a sense of how many deer or using the property. So I am curious how much hunting should be permitted on the land (my 3 teenage boys primarily).

3. This may be a dumb question but I am 44 and do not recall hearing of anyone getting sick from diseased deer meat, yet the USDA (at least in theory) monitors protein products such as poultry, pork, beef, etc. Are there instances that you are aware of where deer meat contained disease that caused illness? If a deer is harested on my property are there any signs (eg. sores, etc.) that I should look for before eating the meat? Should I be worried about contamination of coming into contact with deer blood if I got a cut on my hand, etc.

4. Now for the really dumb question. A few farmers / hunters tell me that deer are not spooked by the sound of a tractor. Remember I am new to this so its ok to laugh. I would assume any motorized sound will scare them. Enlighten me so I will not get laughed at in the future!!

Thanks again!!
newlandowner
Spike
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:03 am

Re: More questions.....

Postby huntall » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:05 pm

#1 . Probably ok to burn if you do it right away, but I would wait till spring.
#2. If your not getting down out of the stand and doing a lot of walking around when you get done hunting you should be ok. I try to hunt and then get out of the woods.
Also most people are weekend hunters and that would give the deer a little break during the week if that is the case, but if you and three boys do a lot of walking most everytime yall go then they are going to get spooky fast!

#3. If worried about blood wear some of those rubber or latex gloves.

# tractor do not spook deer most of the time unless you get too close to one. On a different day it may spook one.
"TEAM 6"
huntall
Pope&Young
 
Posts: 3073
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 7:41 pm
Location: BRANDON

Re: More questions.....

Postby gtk » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:34 pm

newlandowner wrote:1. I cleared about 2 acres of junk trees, probably 3-4 year old growth. The equipment operators left the debris in a large pile to be burned after it dried out good. They dug me a hole to push the debris in once it is burned down. This pile is probably 500 yards from my food plot. This may be a dumb question but would it be ok to burn now or should I wait until after deer season? I would rather get rid of it but if it will send the deer running then I am happy to wait.

Should not be an issue. Just don't burn your woods down. There is a burn ban in our county (or was)

newlandowner wrote:2. I read on this site more than a few comments about "hunting pressure" and that makes sense to me. On the other hand, I don't know how much is too much? Remember my land is about 65 acres within 45 or so wooded, and the remaining pasture for cows. The trail cams are picking up deer (not many horns) but honestly they all look pretty much the same to me so I don't get a sense of how many deer or using the property. So I am curious how much hunting should be permitted on the land (my 3 teenage boys primarily).

Hunt the wind and be mindful of trying not to spook deer too much. If this is the only place you have to hunt, then I would advise to "just hunt" and enjoy it. Sure, if you hunt it every day, the deer may change their travel paths, or start feeding at night, but you are not going to run every single deer off the property.

newlandowner wrote:3. This may be a dumb question but I am 44 and do not recall hearing of anyone getting sick from diseased deer meat, yet the USDA (at least in theory) monitors protein products such as poultry, pork, beef, etc. Are there instances that you are aware of where deer meat contained disease that caused illness? If a deer is harested on my property are there any signs (eg. sores, etc.) that I should look for before eating the meat? Should I be worried about contamination of coming into contact with deer blood if I got a cut on my hand, etc.

Some people are allergic to something in deer blood, but that comes into play only when dressing the deer. I guarantee you the deer I process at home is MUCH cleaner & handled better than anything I buy at the store :)

newlandowner wrote:4. Now for the really dumb question. A few farmers / hunters tell me that deer are not spooked by the sound of a tractor. Remember I am new to this so its ok to laugh. I would assume any motorized sound will scare them. Enlighten me so I will not get laughed at in the future!!

If you are around farmland, then a tractor is not going to spook a deer..
User avatar
gtk
Admin
 
Posts: 19140
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:53 pm
Location: Olive Branch, MS

Re: More questions.....

Postby brewer03 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:28 am

it wont hurt at all to burn your pile.....after it is burnt out and cooled off you will notice that the deer will seem to be attracted to the spot......

hunting pressure will make deer change their routine, however it you pressure them to the extreme they will vacate until the pressure eases up

Deer become accustomed to tractors working an area, and they will ease into cover when you come around but it doesn't run they out of the area
Triple Threat 2015- 2016

Serious Six 2014-2015

Rajun Sardis Bucks
2013-2014 deer hunting champs

life is great the oppurtunity to hunt and fish make it even better
brewer03
Pope&Young
 
Posts: 4548
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:46 pm
Location: Raymond Ms

Re: More questions.....

Postby FireCloud » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:39 pm

I'll share a little more info on three of your questions.

1. would it be ok to burn now or should I wait until after deer season?

There are several factors to consider before you burn. All are important.

A) In order to obtain the liability protections afforded by the state law which allows a landowner to burn on his land, you will need a burn permit. The forestry commission issues them.

B) The permit will specify conditions related to when you can burn. A pile of logging slash can take a long time to burn (several days), especially if it is green wood that has not dried. Thus you need certain weather conditions to burn safely. You don't want to ignite a burn pile fire and have the weather go against you creating conditions you cannot control.

C) You are liable for both keeping the fire safely under control and for all the smoke created by the fire. Even if you can keep the fire itself under control, it is difficult to control the smoke. With a larger burn pile, quite a lot of smoke can be created and it may drift toward areas which are very smoke sensitive (residential areas, highways, etc.) The last thing you want to do is "smoke in" a highway and cause traffic accidents for which you will be entirely liable.

D) People who push up burn piles with heavy equipment don't always take care not to mix in dirt with the wood slash. When there is dirt, considerable smoke will be created during the burn. For this reason you may not want to burn at all. Instead you may want to push the slash into the hole they dug and bury it. Burial removes the slash quickly and much more safely than burning. Burial will not likely do any more to "run off" the deer than has already been done cutting the trees and piling them up.

E) If you do burn, to reduce your liability you should employ a certified burn manager to oversee the burn with a written plan. Failure to do that (and just doing it yourself) will void the liability protections you could otherwise have by following the state's burn laws. The Mississippi burn statue is Section 49-19-301.

My advice is do NOT even consider doing any sort of major burn like this yourself without obtaining a permit and engaging a certified burn manager. If you don't follow the state statue you can be sued and would likely have little defense if anything goes wrong. There actually is liability insurance available for burning and a burn manager can provide you that information.

A Fire Weather forecast along with current burn ban data is updated several times per day by the National Weather service and can be accessed on the weather service website. It contains a lot of technical data and is something a lay person would not necessarily understand but it is critical to review this information prior to planning any sort of outdoor burning on your land. A certified burn manager will be able to interpret the data correctly.

In short, "don't try this at home" yourself: get a professional to provide assistance. The cost is affordable.

2. "hunting pressure" .....how much is too much?

On my "bow only" land I have a basic set of guidelines for guest hunters to follow. No gun hunting greatly reduces pressure on the deer. They are far more nervous being shot at with any sort of firearm even just once. But I have shot at deer with my bow, had them leave the food plot, and return within 5 minutes giving me a second shot opportunity. Peaceful, quiet, undisturbed hunting is the rule here and it helps considerably to keep the deer calm and not pressured.

I also don't allow guest hunting except on Wednesdays, Saturdays, and Sundays. Limiting the amount of times any human is in the woods and having periods of no human contact helps a lot to lower the pressure on the deer.

My rules do not allow riding ATV's on my land except to retrieve a downed deer. Hunters walk in and walk out as quietly as possible. Hunters are expected to go straight to a stand location, hunt, and come right back out. Not having hunters staying in the woods and wandering around, talking, or doing other things to disturb the deer also helps reduce pressure.

Deer are not gutted in the woods but are brought out and cleaned on my skinning rack. Hunters are asked to rotate stands so as not to hunt a single stand for more than one day at a time, giving few days break before hunting that stand again.

It takes all of those rules being enforced consistently to protect the deer from undue pressure on a small tract of land. If you fail to do those sorts of things the deer will quickly adjust to a nocturnal pattern and you will stop seeing nearly all deer except during the rut. Cameras however will confirm to you that the deer have adapted to a night pattern to avoid hunting pressure.

It is possible for all four of you to hunt your 65 acres at the same time. That works out to one hunter for every 21 acres, on average. The deer will absolutely know humans are present however and, in my opinion, that is an excessive amount of pressure. A good rule of thumb is to allow one hunter per 100 acres. Obviously that is not possible on a 65 acre tract. So even if one hunter is there on a hunt day all alone, it is still "over pressuring" the deer to a degree. It is important that you realize the fragile nature of trying to hunt deer on a small tract without altering their behaviors to a point that makes hunting frustrating and unrewarding. The best way to do that is to limit the hunting days and adopt rules like I have which control how hunting is done.

As a result, you will have deer that are much more willing to "share" the woods with you on the occasions you are there without going into panic mode. Gun hunting however will likely so disturb the deer on that small of a tract that nothing you do will keep them from altering their behavior. I recommend bow only for a small tract. If you do gun hunt, I recommend using a .22 rifle and taking close up shots from an elevated stand to the center of the skull of a feeding deer. It will drop them in their tracks every single time and the smaller sound of a .22 seems to be something the deer tolerate better than the sound of high powered rifles or shotguns.

CCI makes a subsonic "conical ball" .22 bullet that weighs 29 grains. It travels at a very slow 710 fps and does not break the sound barrier. The sound is very minimal and does not frighten any animals. It is far quieter than any modern pellet rifle but has sufficient force (about 45 foot pounds) to push the bullet completely through a deer's skull. No animal does much except die after you place a bullet in its brain. I have used that round with success with several deer and not a single one of them has ever taken even one step after being hit in the skull. They just drop in their tracks. If needed a second shot will stop any residual movement of the animal. So if you are going to gun hunt a small tract, I highly recommend adapting your hunting techniques to a completely different method of hunting by using very quiet ammo and limiting shots only to stationary feeding deer where a clean skull shot can be obtained.

I'd much rather take a close up shot at a calm deer unaware of my presence than try a long distance shot with a high powered rifle or try shooting a spooked deer. With a small tract of land, managed properly, you can easily get those kinds of shots. The deer is just as dead either way so you still get the meat and any antlers. It takes very little to kill a deer. They are not difficult to bring down but shot placement is the key. Put the shot where it needs to go and you will kill deer. Too many people try to compensate for their poor hunting or shooting skills by using a weapon that is designed create a hole big enough to guarantee that any shot will be a killing shot.

3. Are there instances that you are aware of where deer meat contained disease that caused illness? If a deer is harested on my property are there any signs (eg. sores, etc.) that I should look for before eating the meat? Should I be worried about contamination of coming into contact with deer blood if I got a cut on my hand, etc.

Obviously, if you see any signs that the deer may be diseased, such as odd behavior, sluggishness, failure to run when approached, etc. then it is important to check the deer for safety before you eat it. We don't have any cases of CWD (chronic wasting disease) confirmed in Mississippi...yet. But it will happen here eventually and the probability exists some deer here may already have it. We only sample a relatively small number of deer each year, typically a few hundred out of nearly 2 million deer, so it takes a while for anything to be identified with very small sample sizes like that.

In general, absent any obvious signs of concern, deer meat is safe to eat. Follow good practices after the kill regarding sanitation of utensils and meat preparation surfaces. I use treated wipes frequently to clean cutting boards and wash my hands often with good soap, as well as washing knives and other implements, while processing deer meat at home. You have to keep the meat refrigerated or at the proper temperature on ice until you either cook it or freeze it. But if you do these common sense things then you will avoid introducing problems such as spoilage into the process.

Always cook deer meat to a sufficient internal temperature, as you would any other meat. Eating under cooked meat can be unsafe.

I like to skin and field dress my deer with latex gloves on. I buy a box of 100 gloves and change them as needed. When you are inside the body cavity, wounds may have exposed intestinal bacteria so it is best to keep your hands protected so you don't get that bacteria into cuts or breaks in your skin.

You can continue using latex gloves for the additional processing needed to clean the deer meat for cooking or freezing, however that is less important unless the "guts" of the deer have been punctured and the contents of the stomach or intestines have spilled onto the meat. if so, keep the gloves on until you have washed the meat well. it absolutely does not hurt to wash meat with water but try not to freeze the meat when it is dripping wet with water. Squeeze the meat out like a sponge then use a paper towel to pat the meat dry.

I have a thread posted in the past that gives more details about processing deer meat at home. Deer meat properly handled from the point of kill and properly processed, then properly cooked, is safe to eat. Handling deer meat with common sanitary practices is also safe for you to do. Deer meat is extremely healthy and one of the very best foods you can substitute for red meats such as beef. I eat a couple hundred pounds of it every year and love it!

PS> Just about any form of wild game is delicious, healthy, and highly edible. It's much more flavorful and better for you than commercial meats filled with growth hormones, preservatives, and other chemicals.
2013-2014 Team Double Drop Tine

"And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth" Genesis 9:2
User avatar
FireCloud
Pope&Young
 
Posts: 3544
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:10 am

Re: More questions.....

Postby brewer03 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:57 am

and this is why we are so glad FireCloud is back active on this board... :ylsuper: :ylsuper: :ylsuper: :ylsuper: I love reading his post... there is always something in them that will help us all
Triple Threat 2015- 2016

Serious Six 2014-2015

Rajun Sardis Bucks
2013-2014 deer hunting champs

life is great the oppurtunity to hunt and fish make it even better
brewer03
Pope&Young
 
Posts: 4548
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:46 pm
Location: Raymond Ms

Re: More questions.....

Postby newlandowner » Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:38 pm

Totally agree with Brewer03. FireCloud is extremely helpful and generous with sharing his knowledge. All on this site are so helpful to newbies like me. Thanks to you all.
newlandowner
Spike
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:03 am

Re: More questions.....

Postby FireCloud » Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:16 pm

Thanks for your kind words. I appreciate them.

However just remember that the entire forum has already been informed by reesguide as to my lack of knowledge. So I would advise you not to put much stock in my post because what could a Dumb*** know anyway?
2013-2014 Team Double Drop Tine

"And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth" Genesis 9:2
User avatar
FireCloud
Pope&Young
 
Posts: 3544
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:10 am

Re: More questions.....

Postby terry08 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:25 pm

Everyone one on the site is a wealth of knowledge.
As for myself, I will be sixty two years of age in January. I was introduced to hunting, at the age of six. And have always taken the limit allowed by law. And then some, never needed all the modern day tactics, that you read about today.
Bottom line, you are the hunter and the whitetail deer, is your game of choice. Just use common sense, learn there habits and movements, enjoy the hunt, and forget all the bull you read, and see on television.
Just Hunt & Enjoy Yourself

Sent from my SCH-R760X using Tapatalk 2
A COUNTRY BOY CAN SURVIVE
HUNTING IS NOT A SPORT, IT'S A WAY OF LIFE

Be Carefull of The Words You Say. Just Keep Them Soft, And Sweet. You never Know From Day To Day, Which Ones You'll Have To Eat.
User avatar
terry08
Pope&Young
 
Posts: 11736
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:59 am
Location: Yazoo County MS

Re: More questions.....

Postby terry08 » Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:09 am

Being serious now, things have really changed over the years when it comes to whitetail deer. And I guess for the better in some respect. While I was young, there weren't that many deer around. I can remember when there wasn't a season in Hinds County. We now have a population, that many of the experts, say is out of control. We no longer have the very large tracks of timber, thanks that I hunted as a child. So I guess in order to be able to hold deer on your property, to some extent, you do need to manage it the best you to can. I, am no expert in this area, so I can't offer advice. Most of the folks on MSDEER, have practiced what they preach, and give sound information you can rely on. On the other hand, I don't put much faith in the hunting shows, that I have seen on the television. Guess that's why I don't watch them.

Sent from my SCH-R760X using Tapatalk 2
A COUNTRY BOY CAN SURVIVE
HUNTING IS NOT A SPORT, IT'S A WAY OF LIFE

Be Carefull of The Words You Say. Just Keep Them Soft, And Sweet. You never Know From Day To Day, Which Ones You'll Have To Eat.
User avatar
terry08
Pope&Young
 
Posts: 11736
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:59 am
Location: Yazoo County MS


Return to Wildlife Habitat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron